High summer has hit and with it an uncharacteristically high load of features to write ... to keep things up to date I will provide some brief links here to all the latest news.
The historic Moscow Dynamo club, home to champions past and present including Emin Garibov, Sergei Kharkov, Natalia Ilienko, Olga Mostepanova, Tatiana Groshkova, Maria Goryunova and Nadezhda Ivanova, is being forced to transfer its operations for a minimum of three years to temporary facilities at the Olympiski stadium. Dynamo's old building is being replaced by a brand new sporting facility funded by Russian sports sponsor, bank VTB, but the status of gymnastics within the new building is unconfirmed to date.
This temporary arrangement is far from ideal. At present it seems likely that the Club will not be able to stage the annual Voronin Cup which has become such an important part of the international gymnastics calendar. Removal arrangements seem highly informal, with the club asking parents to help transfer equipment from the old gym to the Olympiski stadium. The facilities at Olympiski are incomplete and unsuitable for a developed club like Dynamo, and much of the spirit and body of the club is now homeless. Dynamo's elite gymnasts will transfer to train at Lake Krugloye, and the club will suspend recruitment of new gymnasts for three years while the new facilities become available.
There has been an excellent blog on this subject by Natalia Kalugina. There will be a longer piece on Dynamo Moscow shortly after the Universiade.
With many thanks to Vladimir Zaglada.
Svetlana Boguinskaia has given an excellent - hour long - interview to Gymcastic - make time to listen, it is fascinating. Boguinskaia talks about her life in gymnastics past and present. How did she intimidate the gymnasts she trained alongside as a tiny little girl? What part did candy play in her training? What was the difference between training in the Soviet Union, and America? All of this is discussed - and there are some very interesting revelations about the reasons for Alexander Alexandrov's departure from Moscow.
On which subject, I should turn my attentions to the Russian WAG latest outing to the Anadia Cup in Portugal. The Couch Gymnast has a full summary of the all the results of which the key one for Russian gymnastics watchers was a gold on bars from Anastasia Grishina.
This seems rather paltry reward for a young team so rich in talent and, one would assume, ambition. The composition of Grishina, Rodionova, Baturina, Sosnitskaia was undoubtedly a B team led by a potential A teamer (Rodionova) and a potential World Champion (Grishina). to come away with only one gold, against a field that did not include any of the main American contenders for the World Championships, was surely a little disappointing.
I wonder if it was all about the gymnasts? I think some of the E scores were rather harsh - particularly the one for Grishina's floor qualification (7.675) which along with her lower D score of 5.7 led her to position behind Romania's Larissa Iordache, who had a fall. With a composite of moderate deductions for a few smaller errors throughout the routine, Grishina ended up out of the final while other gymnasts progressed.
She does not look as bad as her score to me. However, I would question why a gymnast of Grishina's calibre would need to take such a long rest before her final tumble.
You can find many more excellent videos at Piibunina's channel, including Grishina's beam routine (outstanding line, marred by two falls which apparently in both cases (Alexei Mikhailov advises) are caused by the positioning of the hands before the skill. Rodionova's bars are worth a look for the clear quality of the swing and line she shows - but does this gymnast have any competitive urges at all?
A disappointing outcome in Portugal for the Russian team, I think. Grishina and Rodionova both have the potential to do much better.
But if, as Boguinskaia says, Valentina Rodionenko is replacing their conditioning sets with a walk in the park and a cup of coffee, they never will do much better.
The historic Moscow Dynamo club, home to champions past and present including Emin Garibov, Sergei Kharkov, Natalia Ilienko, Olga Mostepanova, Tatiana Groshkova, Maria Goryunova and Nadezhda Ivanova, is being forced to transfer its operations for a minimum of three years to temporary facilities at the Olympiski stadium. Dynamo's old building is being replaced by a brand new sporting facility funded by Russian sports sponsor, bank VTB, but the status of gymnastics within the new building is unconfirmed to date.
This temporary arrangement is far from ideal. At present it seems likely that the Club will not be able to stage the annual Voronin Cup which has become such an important part of the international gymnastics calendar. Removal arrangements seem highly informal, with the club asking parents to help transfer equipment from the old gym to the Olympiski stadium. The facilities at Olympiski are incomplete and unsuitable for a developed club like Dynamo, and much of the spirit and body of the club is now homeless. Dynamo's elite gymnasts will transfer to train at Lake Krugloye, and the club will suspend recruitment of new gymnasts for three years while the new facilities become available.
There has been an excellent blog on this subject by Natalia Kalugina. There will be a longer piece on Dynamo Moscow shortly after the Universiade.
With many thanks to Vladimir Zaglada.
Svetlana Boguinskaia has given an excellent - hour long - interview to Gymcastic - make time to listen, it is fascinating. Boguinskaia talks about her life in gymnastics past and present. How did she intimidate the gymnasts she trained alongside as a tiny little girl? What part did candy play in her training? What was the difference between training in the Soviet Union, and America? All of this is discussed - and there are some very interesting revelations about the reasons for Alexander Alexandrov's departure from Moscow.
On which subject, I should turn my attentions to the Russian WAG latest outing to the Anadia Cup in Portugal. The Couch Gymnast has a full summary of the all the results of which the key one for Russian gymnastics watchers was a gold on bars from Anastasia Grishina.
This seems rather paltry reward for a young team so rich in talent and, one would assume, ambition. The composition of Grishina, Rodionova, Baturina, Sosnitskaia was undoubtedly a B team led by a potential A teamer (Rodionova) and a potential World Champion (Grishina). to come away with only one gold, against a field that did not include any of the main American contenders for the World Championships, was surely a little disappointing.
I wonder if it was all about the gymnasts? I think some of the E scores were rather harsh - particularly the one for Grishina's floor qualification (7.675) which along with her lower D score of 5.7 led her to position behind Romania's Larissa Iordache, who had a fall. With a composite of moderate deductions for a few smaller errors throughout the routine, Grishina ended up out of the final while other gymnasts progressed.
She does not look as bad as her score to me. However, I would question why a gymnast of Grishina's calibre would need to take such a long rest before her final tumble.
You can find many more excellent videos at Piibunina's channel, including Grishina's beam routine (outstanding line, marred by two falls which apparently in both cases (Alexei Mikhailov advises) are caused by the positioning of the hands before the skill. Rodionova's bars are worth a look for the clear quality of the swing and line she shows - but does this gymnast have any competitive urges at all?
A disappointing outcome in Portugal for the Russian team, I think. Grishina and Rodionova both have the potential to do much better.
But if, as Boguinskaia says, Valentina Rodionenko is replacing their conditioning sets with a walk in the park and a cup of coffee, they never will do much better.
I immediately thought Grishina fell when I saw her score. Her routine was not much different from her Euros quali routine, both including OOB's. I thought the E score was much lower that it should have been. What a shame!
ReplyDeleteBogi's comments about Round Lake after Alexandrov almost made me cry...
ReplyDeleteThere was already a 0.5 difference between Larisa and Nastia's D scores and the other 0.6 are easily covered by those uncontrolled landings, steps, 1 low landing on triple and deduction on pirouette + there should be a deduction for finishing after the music stopped. And if you compare Grishina's score from quals at euros with this one, compare also the routines :); you'll see that she didn't make the mistakes I previously specified.
ReplyDeleteBut it wasnt that bad. First pass was fine, 2nd pass low and a step .2, 3rd pass two steps + OOB .3, Her last pass was low, .1 and it is unclear if they would take a deduction for not ending with the music, her arm movements at the end are part of her salute not her still performing, but either was, maximum .1 off. Now throw in some height deductions, perhaps some excessive arm swings, etc etc, there is still no way that adds up to 2.525 off. Now Iordache fell on her first pass and went OOB with both feet, 1.3 off, 2nd pass step more than shoulder width and low chest, .4, crossed ankles and under rotation on her triple, 2., and low chest +small hop on her last pass, .2. Thats already 2.1 without lack of control on some of her spins/leaps and whatever nonsense the judges found. Larisa and Grishinas routines were about equal except Larisa fell so even with her higher difficulty, there is no way she should have scored higher than Grishina.
DeleteWell I think it had to do with the fact she waited to much in the corner. Larisa did not.
DeleteBut its not like she gets .5 off for that or something. Even if she did it for all four passes that's only .4 off. And she only did it for one. Remember that the rule is "on 2 feet for more that 2 seconds" though it looks ridiculous, the flamingo pose doesn't incur a deduction.
DeleteI have a very hard time trying to find 2.5 in deductions for execution score as well but I could probably see where she's flirting with 2.0 in execution (in a case where the judges were being overly silly and picky)...but definitely not 2.5. She went OOB on pass #1, so that's .1 for step, .1 for OOB and maybe on a super picky more of a poor judging scale .1 for low chest? Then there is that slightly wacky first turn where she hops on base leg and falls off balance. I know the judges would find a problem with that and probably take .1 or .2 but does anyone actually know what that deduction would fall under in the code? I know that was a big question with Komova 'falling out of her turn' at last worlds. Pass #2 was low chest so .1 but I'm wondering if they might have faulted her more than that actually because that one was pretty low. Also she took two stumble steps forward before gaining balance so probably .1 + .1 there. Then perhaps on a super picky scale take another look at turn #2...I wouldn't fault her but maybe because it sort of looks like she's falling forward before entering that illusion they would take that as a .1 for lack of control (another questionable 'falling out of turn' judging issue?). Pass #2 I count 2 steps and OOB so .1 + .1 + .1..unless somehow judges are able to use discretion in how much they take off for "lack of control"? Then of course that whole 'waiting in corner' drama which I'm sure they found at least .1 to fault on (whether they should or not). Pass #4 looked great except maybe low chest so .1? Then IF they can count the end of music thing maybe .1 there? So even if you give judges benefit of doubt and add on maybe .4 for silly things wherever they always find them (landings, height, arm movements) I could only find at max 1.8 or 1.9. Boy I really don't know where the judges found over 2.5 in deductions. Maybe someone else can see some major whole point flaw somewhere to cover the difference but it looks like a lot of us that have taken a peek at the video cannot. Rie, I have not seen the video with larisa iordache but I might go find that and take a look. I'm feeling like she got an awful lot of 'turned head' moments by the judges at this competition. Beam finals was very noticeable! I thought her two beam routines looked almost identical in errors and she managed to score a full point higher? odd.
DeleteI agree. I get that it is not a prestigious event, and I don't expect the judging to be spot on. But I honestly could have done a better job. Don't even get me started on Shang Chunsong's fantastically unrewarded execution during beam finals. I am not saying she would have won. But her score was kind of an insult...
DeletePlease can you transcribe the Bogi´s interview?
ReplyDeleteLaura, why don't you ask them at the Gymcastic site? I don't own the copyright so wouldn't be allowed to transcribe it in its entirety ... it would also take roughly six hours to transcribe a one hour long interview - you are probably better off listening to the podcast :-)
DeleteGrishina is also underscored in UB Final, I mean 8.350 E-score for that routine is just unfair. The FIG's incompetent judges are continuing their dreadful job ensuing the Olympics ...
ReplyDeleteQueen Elizabeth thank you for updating us all with the recent events, much appreciated! It is always good to read your point of view on the competitions as well. I was wondering what your take is on the new regulation for floor...the no standing in the corner requirement? I've noticed at the past couple competitions Grishina is very noticeable awkwardly avoiding this by standing with her back to the diagonal for far too long, while her teammates do not. I also noticed that the Romanian girls are very quick at incorporating this new requirement and very quickly turn before taking flight. Do you think this will become a major problem down the road as we see more top teams begin to compete extensively in preparation for 2016? I know we haven't seen much of the American girls yet this year so I'm wondering whether any of their athletes will fall into the same pitfall by 'getting around' the requirement. Do you this may become a place where deductions become more heavily utilized by judges if they are frustrated with athletes standing around too long the opposite way now, or can the judges even take off for this if the requirement was no standing facing the diagonal?
ReplyDeleteHi Lunabug, I love your name.
DeleteI suppose my opinion of this nutty problem is always going to be complicated and, I am afraid, rather long-winded. But you did ask me!
The first thing is that I do not know why the FIG introduced this funny rule. There was already a deduction for standing in the corner, waiting for the tumble, after all; the change is that the gymnasts mustn't stand on TWO FEET in the corner. This seems a bit strange and pointless.
The only change it seems to have effected for Grishina is that instead of standing on two feet pointing inwards to the floor, she now stands on one foot, looking outwards, wiggling her arms a bit. Perhaps she should just do a handstand, and idle there for ten minutes ... would that incur a deduction?
If this rule is about artistry, the FIG are missing the point as artistry should be original and can't be micromanaged or broken down to simple measurables. There is a lot more to artistry than avoiding standing, idling, in the corner.
Although obviously taking a rest whenever you can doesn't exactly reflect well on a gymnast's fitness. I take the point you make - the Romanian gymnasts are very fit and seem able to go through their routines without needing to take a breath at all. Grishina seems less fit and confident, but then again a relentless stream of tumbling is not always appropriate to every routine.
On the other hand, not many gymnasts actually attempt much original dance in their routines - think eg of Raisman's galumphing, Douglas's chicken dancing. Iordache incorporates some nice poses. Bulimar is charming, but choreographically empty. Sometimes and I point at the Americans in particular, their inherent gymnastic qualities are not that good, ie they have poor line, poor amplitude, their leaps 'bounce' rather than float effortlessly. Gymnastics should be about panache, artistry and virtuosity, not just energy and precision ... the sport is not field athletics, it is gymnastics. The FIG has lost sight of this I am afraid.
Mentally and physically what many of the best Russians (Afanasyeva, Grishina, Mustafina) attempt is fundamentally more complex than a routine whose principle attributes are the gymnastic and tumbling elements with a few side stepping links. You could argue that their more complex routines make greater demands on their fitness ... ie that they are doing more, even though this might not be recognised in the D score.
Hmph ... so what am I saying in response to your question? I suppose ... that strictly according to the rules, I think Grishina will continue to be penalised for this 'error'. That Grishina should ideally have greater endurance if she wants to do better under this Code, and that it does not give a great impression to stand there for so long.
But that the rule seems to be somewhat petty and misguided, and grounded in the misconceived idea that you can micromanage artistry. Yes, deduct for long pauses in routines, but add a bonus for artistry, too, or deduct for artistry where it is absent. (This has to be subjectively judged and cannot be measured objectively, which is what the FIG struggle with: they think 'objectivity' is the same as 'fairness', and it isn't.)
Finally, what we all know - that the Code is inadequate and poorly structured when it comes to reflecting all the different dimensions of gymnastics.
Sorry -I have rambled. It's just I can't answer a question about a single point in the Code without contextualising it to the overall idea of the Code as a tool unfit to evaluate gymnastics in all its different colours.
Well than thank you for the 'ramble' Queen Elizabeth! =) Your insights are always well received and we all appreciate the time you take to share the latest news with us on the gymnastics world and I will take any bits of information or shared thoughts and opinions I can get. I myself am getting excited for the busy summer/fall ahead with competitions to follow on TV and the web! I wish there were top competitions to follow even more frequently to get a daily dose of gymnastics for us fans! That issue with the 'standing in the corner' was a bit confusing to me and I think you cleared up a little for me where that confusion started and how the FIG's changes to the code don't particularly make sense and benefit the system.
Delete